Senior Product & Service Experience Designer, London, UK
Please introduce yourself and describe your career. What do you do for a living?
Hi, my name is Shirlee but legally I’m Yiting. I moved to New Zealand in 2012 with my family where neither of us spoke English. Today, I am currently a Senior Product & Service Experience Designer for a global design agency namely frog in the UK.
As a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?
An artist, the fine art, mixed medium type of artist!
My first art exhibition on the street of China when I was 8-years-old.
What did you study? How much schooling do you think is required to get into your role?
What could you have skipped?
I studied for 3 years at AUT university and got a Bachelor of Design majoring in illustration in 2012. Then I went back in 2017 and got a Postgraduate Diploma in Brand Communication and Digital Design.
I think being a designer today is really different. Today, I work with “designers” that are psychologists, ex-architectes, ex-business strategists and I had a colleague that was an ex-medic!
When I left university, being a designer revolved around visual communication and its execution. At the time I felt like design was more about visual communication, informative visual communication. I started as a graphic designer first when I graduated.
I would have skipped it all! I think visual communication and execution skills are critical, but I would’ve taken a degree on Design for Sustainable development. Design has the power to challenge our status quo and design a world better for us (humans), our economy and our planet. It’s way bigger than it should be green or green-ish. Don’t get me wrong, I think execution is important as we are visual creatures but that comes second.
Was your path hard or smooth getting to where you are in your career? (Can you briefly describe what it was like on your journey so far?)
It was literally a tangle, by myself – left, right and back and forth in hoping I will eventually go forward. And lots of self-hugging because I’ve failed plenty.
I graduated in 2012 as a graphic designer from AUT after not getting into Fine Art School – my first major failure point. Then I stumbled around in Auckland between junior roles and or basically a glorified ‘printer’ for at least 2 years before I finally got my official design role at TRA. It was then where I first learned about the power of quantitative and qualitative research and most importantly behavioral economics. I was HOOKED, literally. I decided to question my entire career whilst at TRA. I felt like I was a bad designer, I designed subjectively without an understanding of my audiences. As it turns out that was the essence of HCD (Human-Centered Design). I started googling for new roles not knowing what I’m looking for. I stumbled onto my next big career milestone at DNA (yes, I have a thing for acronyms but turns out it's just easier to STICK for our brains).
At this point in my career, two things were clear to me. I cared about people, I cared about designing the world so it’s better for the people in it and why should brands and businesses listen to us humans, after all our wallets keep them afloat! So I applied for an Experience Designer role having ZERO clue what it does other than what I googled told me. Shockingly I didn’t get the role; but luckily for me a Visual Designer quit that week so I got in. From there I did a mixture of things to uncover what I liked and what I didn’t like and also found my mentor and friends. And here we are today.
Walk us through your typical workday—when do you start, end, and do all day? (Where do you work from?)
I now work for a UK company called frog Part of Capgemini Invent, I’ve been there since August 2021.
I start my day at 5 am, but my actual workday is 8:30-9am. I love it when the world is quiet, I feel like I can get ahead if that makes sense, I am an overachiever unfortunately and I need to be better all the time. I spend 5-9 am doing active things for myself like gym or running or just a walk to clear my ahead.
I mostly work from home, with 1-2 days in the office. I have moved out of London recently as I was just home sick, and I needed a bit of the country and green. London amplified the definition of lonely in a crowded space. I'm lucky there aren't any hard mandates from work, it’s more flexible to deliver the best outcome for your work.
I am considered a hybrid designer. I can do a wide spectrum of work ranging from UI production, Service Design to typical Product Designer things. I prefer more strategic work where we get the opportunity to challenge the problem and shape it, so the outcome is a sustainable and equitable solution for all.
What are some questions someone should really ask themselves if they want to get into your industry / career path?
Do you want to fight for your values to design a world that’s better for all. Often there are lots of push backs because of the project scope, budget and client needs and yes you can do great work from being a designer in a global agency but where will we be if we don’t make the world better for all starting now?
What do you enjoy most about your career? (What do you enjoy least?)
Most: understanding the true cause of the problem for our client, the complexity of systems and its connectivity. And understanding the true needs of people, what’s needed in their lives. And advocating for solutions and or services are inclusive and equitable and accessible for all. I’m a firm believer, it’s stupid to create things that amplify social injustice and inequality. I came from a home with two immigrant parents working multiple jobs not speaking English to provide a life for me. I've seen their struggles; I’ve seen how the world doesn’t always play fair, and I refuse to continue designing the world only for the privileged.
My rocks, they still both work in labor intensive jobs despite the fact they were both doctorates in China, in statistics and economics,
Oh, and meeting incredibly passionate smart people from all areas as I’m often amongst different disciplines to create the magic.
Least: UI production and detailed visual executions. My brains naturally see the bigger things and its connections and miss the details, and it drives ‘real’ visual designers crazy.
What tools/resources do you frequently use? (Books, podcasts, mentors, wellness habits, software, etc.)
I like to keep myself updated with sustainable policies, regulations in certain industries as I want to make sure products and services are inclusive. Outside work, I’m a self-help book and podcast junky.
What is something you do when things get difficult? How do you handle stress/ challenges?
Breath, break the challenge down and tackle it. After silently screaming and swearing first of course! I run a lot when I need time to think or to zone out.
What advice would you give to someone who is trying to figure out what they want to do (for work) in general?
Trial and error and understand that every detour is just another way forward. I hiked a lot when I was in NZ, when the track is not kept, you just go around it, it’s the same thing. It’s frustrating because I know it feels like you are going backwards but stay on the path!
Do you have any mentors or key pieces of career advice that helped you get to where you are today?
I’ve had an amazing mentor that turned into a friend that I still try to get life lessons from. One that really stuck with me is “you can be both, it’s a bonus”. I am the product of two cultures, I am a hybrid designer. I still don’t know where I belong, literally and metaphorically. It’s only in the last few months I’ve owned up to the ‘bonus’ of my identity and my skills. And soon the same advice will be applicable when I think about motherhood and my career.
Only advice I have is to always look out for the female leaders around you, they will be your lighthouses. Look for male leaders that will pause to hear your voice, remember your name and spotlight you amongst your male counterparts, they do exist. I have one at work today and I am forever grateful for his trust and faith in me when I was hired during the peak of a global pandemic whilst I lived in New Zealand.
What excites you about the future OR what's up next for you in the near future? (Could be career-related, life-related, or even a future career pivot / path)
I have re-found my passion for art whilst living abroad, I think I want to slowly shift my career towards my childhood dream of becoming an artist. The rest is really a mystery. I am looking at all the mothers in design and trying to understand and learn how one balances a life as a mother and be the boss designers, leaders that they are. All I know is they are my lighthouses as I drift towards my next chapter.
Where can readers find/connect with you if they have questions? OR How can we support you?
Find me on LinkedIn me or Instagram! But also, I love to chat virtually or in person. Naturally being a researcher, I like to listen more, and I dream of a world where life stories are shared between strangers.